Nat'l Day of Prayer: Christians refuse to follow Jesus?

D DeMilo

GW politicized his religion in the vain of the members of the Sandhedrin (falsely pious keepers of Abrahamic Law and not shy about getting into the political business of the state....they tried to high-jack a Roman politician to crucify Jesus)

Evangelical Christianity in America is a political movement. Bush is a Born Again Evangelical Christian; apparently, Obama is not practicing as an Evangelical.

Bush gave the Evangelicals a huge footprint in the political arena. So we are having this debate post Bush because American government is influenced by a Christian lobby that has always been around and will likely always be around.

So, yes sir it is what the Christian Right does...but they aren't calling themselves the Christian Right anymore...sorry I can remember the new label hasn't...stuck with me yet

yep. a new name but the same players. if they were even half as devout as they claim or spewed less hate-filled rhetoric of exclusion and damnation, they would gain credibility

didn't this mostly start back with reagan and jerry falwell's moral majority whom reagan courted for votes???

Agent57

Billy Graham Sr. started keeping court with American presidents back in the 50's (Truman, Kennedy, Nixon, to name a few) and was truely a bipartisan. He was very popular with the American people and rated in the top ten of most liked people

Graham was a major inspiration in W's conversion from his parents' Episcopilian devotion

I forgot about Billy Graham, he was a good man,, and yes bipartisan. He wasn't trying to influence the White House or congress.... wereas the moral majority was more into lobbying.... and pursuing a political agenda.... backing chosen candidates to advance a political agenda....

# 7- teetracie - If Christians were called to worship in private all the time, how would they be showing the outward expression of the inward faith?

Why would they need to if their sole purpose is to please God who knows and sees everything. Why does a Christian have to prove faith to anyone but God? Wouldn't anything else be showboating!

Ok first of all I'm going to reply to Conrad.

I expect, now that you two have found this site, that you will continue to bombard us with your comments. Go ahead.

How is this AT ALL showing what this site is about? From what I understand, you come here, see other people's opinions and have discussion to try and gain perspective. It's what I'm doing here. I wanted to comment on something, show another point of view and it's what I did. It's fine if you don't agree with it, I even sometimes have trouble believing it myself. But sarcasm and belittling someone is not taking the high road and proving your point to anyone but yourself. Just because I'm new to this site does not mean I don't have opinions and views that I think others might benefit from. To think you're superior due to your longevity of this site is completely wrong and intolerant. Moving on.

The whole point of hermeneutics, as you know, is interpretation of scripture for oneself. It's fine if you want to take that passage and think of it as you will, I was just trying to make sure that another view was presented as an option.

As a Christian myself, I am extremely uncomfortable with the National Day of Prayer and See You at the Pole and other displays of prayer like that. I do think that many people who come out to those are just trying to be like the Pharisees and show people that they're "doing the right thing." But I'm not about to condemn all of them because there are some who go out and do that to be part of the community and worship together. It's not fair to them.

To PowerIsKnowledge, I'm not saying that a Christian has to prove their faith to anyone but God. But as Christians we are called to worship God through our actions. Worship isn't just prayer or singing, it's doing anything because of the love of God. I can worship him by volunteering. I can worship him by tutoring. I can worship him by working. It's the attitude that people have while doing these things that shows the love of Christ, and that's what I meant.

to put it simply, we worship through our actions that others might see and follow suit but our prayers are in private, a personal commune with God

Regarding 7.5, I find it ironic that so many miss that, as they vote Republican for the sake of warped morals and tell the poor that their problems are their own. I've even been told (by Christians) that my three-year-old niece (who has cerebral palsy) has no right to health care-that it's a privilege.

Again, I wish God never existed because I find more compassion in those who practice Atheism than in those who are religious.

A Christian is to demonstrate his faith in how he lives and interacts with others.

If Christians were called to worship in private all the time, how would they be showing the outward expression of the inward faith?

Matthew 25:35 - 40

For I was hungry and you gave me something to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me something to drink, I was a stranger and you invited me in, I needed clothes and you clothed me, I was sick and you looked after me, I was in prison and you came to visit me.'

"Then the righteous will answer him, 'Lord, when did we see you hungry and feed you, or thirsty and give you something to drink? When did we see you a stranger and invite you in, or needing clothes and clothe you? When did we see you sick or in prison and go to visit you?'

"The King will reply, 'I tell you the truth, whatever you did for one of the least of these brothers of mine, you did for me.'

..

..

See? That's how Christians are to show their rfaith

Ok, so you're going to blame Governmental policies (death penalty, taxes) and money printing on the Christians? Interesting.

So using your logic, if people are peacefully assembled together in front of their congressman's office to show their support for gay marriage legislation, they're doing nothing but trying to entice a riot? Not likely. Christians assembled together for prayer and people peacefully gathering to support or protest are both supporting their own causes and showing their beliefs...you can't say one is ok while condemning the other. It's all or nothing. The double standards don't work on this.

You're talking to someone who knows the Bible better than you do because I was born and raised in that nonsense.

Jesus Himself said that Christians should pay their taxes and that Church and State are separate. As per the demonstration against gay marriage in front of their congressman's office...yes. That's disturbing the peace because they are attempting to twist the Constitution against their fellow citizens and they should be arrested for that. Since scientists have found homosexuality in other animals, it's obviously natural for some...just as it's natural for my girlfriend to be a southpaw-yet another thing that the Church considered to be satanic.

As long as we're talking about double standards, let's talk about the centuries of murder which have been committed against entire populations in the name of Christ.

Yeah, that's what I thought...............

I know the Bible as well as you do, sir. I was raised in it and went to a Bible college for two years. Don't assume your superiority over me because you think you're right. True superiority comes from open-mindedness and discussion and willingness to accept others opinions just as that...opinions. I'm not saying what I think is fact, just as you shouldn't think yours is fact either. I'm not trying to convince you or anyone else one way or another as you seem to be shoving your beliefs and thoughts down these readers' throats as truth.

Yes, Jesus did say we should pay our taxes, respect our government, and respect those around us by not making them feel uncomfortable. Both Christians and non-Christians alike cheat the IRS, don't demonstrate peacefully, and make others uncomfortable by shoving their beliefs onto others. Everyone is guilty of this.

I agree with you 100% on your last statement, about killing in the name of Christ. It's disgusting and wrong and completely out of line. Just as it's wrong for a suicide bomber to kill in the name of Allah. Just as it's wrong for people to avenge murders by killing the murderer. But again. You can't blame the WHOLE people for the actions of a few. You can't blame the whole Islamic religion because of 9/11. You're going to find hypocrisy and double standards everywhere. You just need to be careful to not turn that into a stereotype.

Making generalities is the only way to make the good people step forward. Remember that evil triumphs when good people remain silent.

Making generalities is the only way to make the good people step forward. Remember that evil triumphs when good people remain silent.

Ok so the only way to make good people step forward is if I generalize that all atheists are hateful and violent, that all Caucasians are rich and intolerant, that all African-Americans steal, that all Hispanics work for minimum wage? No. That's ignorance.

MG - I disagree with you on one point; public prayer should not be restricted so long as (a) it is not required, forced or coerced; and (b) it is a right enjoyed equally by all regardless of belief or lack of

outlawing religeous practice is no different than nationalizing religeous practice, both are a violation and an afront to the constituion

Jesus said that only the hypocrites pray in public.

#8.4 -teetracie - Both Christians and non-Christians alike cheat the IRS, don't demonstrate peacefully, and make others uncomfortable by shoving their beliefs onto others.

Not true. Christians follow their ten commandants and other teachings. Those who deliberately disobey aren't Christians--they only profess to be.

I'm not a Christian. In fact, I'm not religious at all. Don't need it to define who I am. I do know a lot of people in various faiths and I find far too many who are judgmental, intolerant, jealous, vengeful, petty, angry, unhappy, prejudice, are murderers, sexual predators, liars, thieves, cheats, and untrustworthy. And when they deliberately go against their teachings, they make excuses. No, it's not a tough job deciding who is real a who is not. Real people are those who live to help others, are kind, give encouragement to everyone, generous, and supportive all the time. Since I don't believe there will be a judgment day, I can't respond to that.

Question for you. If your God is good all the time, why would his followers be anything but joyful all the time?

Well said PowerIsKnowledge. I've been arguing that point for years. I consider myself a good person who goes out of his way to help others. I need neither the threat of hell nor the reward of heaven to be this way, I do it because it makes me feel good.

Power, one of the tenets of Christianity is that we are given free will to live our lives. So it becomes the individuals responsibilty to follow the path. Some followers are mostly joyful, although in this world we live in it is sometimes hard to maintain. We are after all, only human. A good person is good whether he believes in a particular religion or not. Another key concept is that none of us is here to judge the other person, outside of making choices on whom you might associate with in life. Regarding the topic of this article, I think Obama,s choice for private prayer is closer to the correct form. In particular, his choice to not make a public display of prayer which could be interpreted as government sanctioned prayer.

8.14 - goldminor - Power, one of the tenets of Christianity is that we are given free will to live our lives. So it becomes the individuals responsibilty to follow the path. Some followers are mostly joyful, although in this world we live in it is sometimes hard to maintain. We are after all, only human.

Didn't God create man to serve him and only him? Didn't God give man free will as an option to serve him or not to serve him?

The free will to choose right from wrong or the path you choose to walk in life. As to why he created us, I do not know his thoughts outside of what I have been taught and some wisdom that I have gained from my personal search for understanding. I was raised in a Catholic family, which would be a very different set of rules then being raised by fundamentalists. I was naturally drawn to search for deeper understanding and purpose within the Church. I was an altar boy for most of grade school. However, in the 7th grade, when it came time to receive the sacrament of Confirmation, I became aware that what I was searching for would have to be found elsewhere. This was not a loss of faith in the Catholic Church, simply a need for me to find additional answers.

To each his own. Just be careful to not criticize or condemn those who believe differently from you. Then you're no better than what you accuse them of being.

Oh, really?

Don't the Republicans do that to everyone else? I'll just give them a taste of their own medicine. I'll give a right-wing religious fundamentalist twice the portion that he gave me.

Yes, and so do the democrats. In March in Missouri there was a report called the MIAC Report that was released to Missouri law enforcement saying that anyone who supported Ron Paul, Chuck Baldwin, or Bob Barr, or who was against the North American Union, New World Order, the Federal Reserve, or even Barack Obama himself was a right wing extremist and a potential militia member. The people whose platform is based on peace and restoring the Constitution are seen as threats to national security.

We see it from all sides of the spectrum. The fact that the government isn't willing to accept diversity of beliefs amongst its citizens is a direct violation of the Constitution, whether said government is democratic or republican.

I'm sorry for your horrible past and experience with religion. It's something many people go through. But your hatred and bitterness towards it is stopping you from seeing things clearly and taking in someone else's point of view as an option. It's dangerous and makes you as close minded as you accuse others of being.

your life must be as worthless as.joy behar,o'reilly,bill mahar,hanity,and a hole lot more sad people.

That's a very Christ-like statement, ditchdigger. Thank you for advocating my point.

I have no difficulty in saying what God was-a hypocrite and a liar who had no intention of granting promises-see Abraham.

I used to be a Christian-until it nearly killed me.

MG... does my faith hinder you in any way?

You are free to believe or not believe in the manner you choose.

If I don't judge you, do you agree to not condemn me?

I say God is not dead, and true Christians follow the teachings to the best of their ability.

YES... evil deeds have occurred in the name of religion... all religions... but that doesn't mean that the evildoers did such because of their faith. Rather, they committed atrocities in spite of any faith.

I used to believe the Bible-now I read it only to find the discrepancies-which are plenty when you consider the fact that times have changed.

Perhaps... you read it to force arguments.

Religious faith of any kind hinder entire populations-see the Middle East.

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Metal

And what are all these discrepancies you have found in the Bible?

For someone of no religious faith Metal, you certainly are persistent in wanting others to believe what you believe.

Almost as if you follow atheism religiously.

I wish atheism were true. However, I regret to inform you that it isn't. Someone is maintaining the Universe, but He's asleep at the switch when children get abused.

Let's see....it's wrong to kill, but it's okay to kill your children if they talk back (see Leviticus and Deuteronomy).

Paul allegedly states that homosexuality is wrong, but admits to having a thorn in his flesh.

The Bible also advocates slavery and tells slaves not to rebel against cruel masters, but to submit with fear and trembling.

I don't think so.

I'm a free man. I submit to no God or any other slavemaster (Ephesians 6:5-6).

I think Conrad meant well when he wrote this article. Through his answers, I am also inclined to believe he (unlike most Christians) might actually be trying to do the right thing. While I might not agree with everything he is stating, I respect his candor and his attempt to please his God.

Since I was raised in that nonsense, I know everything about it. By quoting that verse, you seem to advocate my point-that God condones murder in His name, child abuse and illegal wars.

Let me ask you this: Do you believe that God spoke to George W. Bush and told him to go to war in Iraq? If so, wouldn't we have won?

Free will is a load of crap-and I will prove it right now: Mark 14:30 and Matthew 26:34. Peter was destined to deny Christ-and there wasn't a thing he could do about it. It was set in stone.

Do you believe that God spoke to George W. Bush and told him to go to war in Iraq? If so, wouldn't we have won?

Why not?

Maybe God thought suberbia was too awash in the US and a good spanking was at the order of the day.

I agree with Conrad. It is not OUR interpretation that matters. It's what was intended, and I'm not totally convinced the Bible has all the answers... just my .02 worth, which, with inflation isn't much... lol!

So true, Conrad. Far better said than what I said.

Ah! Another post from the 21% club.

We lost the Iraq War a long time ago and that country is quickly becoming another Iran-which means God didn't say a God damn word to that drunk.

God doesn't speak to anyone, as He has better things to do.

I used to be a Christian-and then I grew up. Of course, being ostracized when I was a kid gave me a little push.

A word of advice: Practice what you preach and people will flock to you. The reason why you have a persecution complex is because of hypocrites like Rev. Ted Haggard, Jim Bakker, Jimmy Swaggart, David Vitter, Larry Craig and the rest of the boys.

It's also a good idea not to judge people who are hurting, but to help them instead.

Metal Guitarist - I'm sorry you were ostracized as a kid - children can be cruel no matter the reason for it.

The reason I say this thread is just another bash fest on Christians is that I have read the newsvine seeds long enough to know that many Christian haters post such threads to vent their venom and little else. Thus, I call it as I see "it's fruit."

Before I became a christian, I didn't like hypocracy, and now that I am a christian, I still dislike it, but I know that the only answer is a life changing relationship with Christ as personal Savior.

He might have been thinking of Metal Guitarist.

Thanks goldminor.

The sermons weren't abusive at all. They taught me that Christianity and religion is not truth.